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By Dan Fleshler | March 5, 2011

BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION, More than 2,000 American Jews attended the national J Street conference last weekend in DC, determined to do something to change the discourse within the Jewish community and affect American policy. I've waited a week to write about this because I wanted to gauge others' reactions and sort out what I experienced at the conference, LASIX from canadian pharmacy. Purchase LASIX online, Predictably, right-wing Jewish bloggers like David Horowitz and Jennifer Rubin objected when many attendees enthusiastically applauded vehement criticisms of the occupation and the Israeli government, online buy LASIX without a prescription, Cheap LASIX, depicting a cabal of malevolent Israel-haters who thought the Jewish state was solely responsible for scuttling the peace process with the Palestinians.

Indeed, fast shipping LASIX, Online LASIX without a prescription, there was no shortage of people who were angry at the plight of the Palestinians and Israel's contributions to the current diplomatic impasse. But the very boisterous left wingers at the conference, LASIX reviews, LASIX wiki, people who were much more comfortable hanging out with radical Israeli human rights activists than with Kadima and Labor Party MKs, were not as numerous as media reports contend, purchase LASIX. Many attendees were more centrist, including savvy Democratic Party activists and donors, as well as the likes of Ken Bob, the President of Ameinu, who spoke out forcefully against BDS during a panel discussion, BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION. Kjøpe LASIX på nett, köpa LASIX online, That said, it is certainly true that the left wing of J Street is loud and energetic, LASIX pics. Buy cheap LASIX, And that creates a challenge for an organization that needs to appeal to at least some in the mainstream American Jewish community in order to achieve its political goal, which is to give the Obama Administration and Congress more leeway to disagree with Israel from time to time, purchase LASIX online no prescription. LASIX online cod, Check out Bruce Levine's comments to my previous post for the reactions of a liberal American Jew who clearly wanted to support J Street but has become alienated (See comments 40 and 41). J Street needs him, LASIX duration, Where can i find LASIX online, and needs to figure out a way to bring him back.

As the Forward's Nathan Guttman BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION, puts it, "J Street faces a sometimes difficult balancing act in appealing to those in Washington and in the organized Jewish community while also meeting the expectations of the left-leaning activists who make up its base."

James Besser asks, "Can J Street keep its core members happy while working to reassure members of Congress who may be inclined to support it that it won't get them in political hot water?"

That is a very good question. But it isn't the only question, LASIX results, LASIX cost, and it might not be the most important one.

The activists on J Street's left wing don't pose a challenge only to the organization's leaders, LASIX over the counter. LASIX treatment, They, and the many Jews who agree with them, generic LASIX, Buy LASIX from mexico, also pose a relatively new challenge to the mainstream, organized American Jewish community, after LASIX, Buy LASIX from canada, which hasn't a clue about how to deal with them.

One reason for J Street's impressive growth has gone largely unnoticed, where can i cheapest LASIX online. More and more American Jews who feel committed to Israel's safety and survival are angry at Israel and are willing to say so, BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION. LASIX for sale, And they are willing to assert publicly, in no uncertain terms, LASIX mg, Is LASIX addictive, that some Israeli behavior is just plain wrong. For quite some time, low dose LASIX, Doses LASIX work, in all kinds of American Jewish settings, it has been perfectly acceptable to claim that Israel's settlement policies jeopardize its security or its future as a Jewish democracy, buying LASIX online over the counter. Ordering LASIX online, But to say that Israel and Israelis sometimes violate moral and ethical values is quite different, and still quite daring, LASIX dosage. Herbal LASIX, More and more human rights organizations in Israel are doing so. BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION, Their values are shared by a broad swath of American Jews who are most definitely not anti-Zionists or haters of Israel. They infuriate the far left as well as the far right, LASIX forum. They are emotionally connected to the Jewish state and care about its well-being. My impression is that the vast majority of them understand that the current situation is not all Israel's fault, and that Palestinians and their leaders are also culpable. But they no longer want to keep their mouths shut about what is rotten in the Palestinian territories, such as the abuses by Israeli soldiers reported by Breaking the Silence, the collective deprivations caused by the seige of Gaza, the rousting of Palestinians out of their homes in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of East Jerusalem.

What are American synagogues and traditional Jewish community groups going to do about these people, BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION. These institutions have had a hard enough time giving podiums to official representatives from J Street and Americans for Peace Now, who have not been allowed to speak in some synagogues and shouted down in others. Now the institutions are faced with an even tougher challenge. What are they going to do about all the unofficial, spirited grassroots activists who insist that they are pro-Israel, who get fired up and angered by human rights abuses, and who are motivated to speak out mainly because Israel is becoming a country that does not conform to their core values, their decidedly Jewish values. Will any part of the American Jewish mainstream even try to find a place for them in the communal tent. BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION, Or will the Jewish establishment just ignore them, try to wish them away.

Right now, in my community, except in a small minority of synagogues and meetings of left-leaning American Jewish groups, one is simply not allowed to talk about the moral cost of ruling over another people. If that taboo is not broken, an entire generation of young, articulate people who should have a place somewhere in the traditional Jewish community will look elsewhere for a home.

I have a recurring, probably crazy dream: somehow, in the forums of the organized Jewish world, at least in many more Reform and Conservative synagogues, some room will be made for a vocabulary of right and wrong when discussion turns to the occupation. A more inclusive protocol will let into the conversation the conference attendees--many of them college kids--who eagerly applauded when Daniel Levy told them, "You can't be a friend of Arab freedom and be on the wrong side of Palestinian freedom." Those very same people also lobbied Congress for aid to Israel (and the Palestinian Authority). Watch and listen to the testimonies of conference attendees on this web site. All of them want to help Israel. Call them misguided if you want, but make room for them.

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Topics: American Jews, Israel, Israeli occupation, Israeli settlements, J Street, Palestinians, Zionism | 16 Comments »

16 Responses to “BUY LASIX NO PRESCRIPTION”

  1. Matthew Says:
    March 5th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Dan, I think part of the problem has to do with the ability of Jews to speak outside of Jewish spaces and be heard. Many left-wing Jews rightly feel that they’re being shut out in the larger Jewish community. At the same time, however, many “centrist” Jews feel just as rightly that they are shut out in larger non-Jewish communities (where “Leftist” Jews often find it much easier to be heard). If I want to talk about the deep problems I have with Mearsheimer and Walt, I’m immediately confronted with Phillip Weiss and made to argue with him even though he isn’t even present. (This is a common experience for minorities, so that “anti-racism 101″ often has rules like, “People must own their feelings and expressions. Ventriloquy is not helpful in discussions of racism.”) If Leftist Jews want me to support their rights to speak up in Jewish spaces, it’s just not possible for me if they’re arguing for my silence. That’s my fault line.

    BDS (not just boycotts of products produced in the settlements, but what most people seem to mean by BDS, including academic and cultural boycotts) presumes that we Jews do not have an automatic right to speak to our own experiences. Talk about how the “lobby” stifles debate is not only so often completely wrong, but it’s routinely used to silence people who want to talk about antisemitism.

    It’s possible to forge far-left positions that acknowledge and even celebrate the rights of all Jews to speak from their own experiences. I know people who manage it. What’s more, I think it’s necessary if anyone on the Left wishes to be true to their own values. But when it gets to the national discourse, the type of thing that J Street wants to be a part of, I almost never see it.

  2. Bill Pearlman Says:
    March 5th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Please Dan, not allowed to talk. You people never shut up. your full of platitudes about how Israel has lost its soul. And how hurt you are by this. And ashamed. Somehow I think a 20 year old kid guarding the border with gaza is considerably less then impressed with your anguish. But I keep coming back to the same question. What is the brilliant j-street plan? Tell us. Better yet move to Israel and make a run for the knesset.

  3. Shimshon Says:
    March 5th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    As I understand it people want to feel connected to Israel and the Jewish people by endlessly haranguing Israel and if they can’t criticize at full volume their feelings are hurt. So they take the ball and run home crying to Ima saying “those Israeli kids are so rude and domineering and unfair. Why can’t they be more like me?”

    Please spare me all your angst and holier-than-thou preaching at least until it’s your sons and daughters going to serve for three years on active duty; until it’s your kids, let alone you, who have something at stake in this other than your oh-so-sincere wish to see the Jews be just like you were taught we were supposed to be – fair and nice and just to all.

    I voted for Yossi Sarid and Shulamit Aloni and the rest of Ratz when I lived there realizing that as a citizen living in Israel I could make a difference. I hope my vote mattered. Here as Jews – debate all you want, massage your hurt feelings at not being heard and form groups that make you think what you say matters – but mostly it doesn’t. It may make you feel better – but falling into lock step with all of Israel’s enemies when you have nothing really at stake other than your opinion, your sincere wishes, your unmet expectations…you help no one other than yourself and those who agree with you. There’s a reason J-Street has a hard time convincing others it really and truly does support Israel cause all anyone hears is how it doesn’t.

    Like the majority of Israelis I desperately want Israel to make a deal; I also desperately want to believe that if there were to be a deal hamas wouldn’t just waltz in and take over the PA as they did in Gaza. But I can’t know what it’s like to live with that possibility; with that legitimate, very real threat. You think you know what it’s like? Really?

    Maybe if Hamas takes over Canada or Mexico and is threatens to destroy you and is armed with long range missiles by Hezbollah and Iran we can have this discussion again. Maybe you won’t be so sensitive and easily hurt. Better yet maybe then you’ll have your sense of belonging.

  4. Dan Fleshler Says:
    March 5th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Shimshon, it might surprise you to learn that I don’t disagree with your summary in the last two paragraphs. As long as Hamas is in power and can threaten Israel with rockets, it’s hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel. Of course I would strongly denounce any American government that tried to ram a solution down Israel’s throat and forced you to live with those risks.

    There are no grand diplomatic schemes on this blog. But I do think that if there is to be ANY hope, any hope at all, of bridging the gaps between Israel and the PA and defusing Hamas, the U.S. will need to be in the middle of it, a truly honest broker and mediator offering creative solutions that neither party likes very much but both could live with. If I didn’t know –and if I hadn’t interviewed—smart Israelis who agreed with this premise, I would never advocate it publicly. But there is a whole chapter in my book in which Israelis ranging from Ephraim Sneh to Shlomo Ben Ami talk about the vital importance of this kind of active American engagement, which sometimes means disagreeing with Israel.

    But the conventional Israel lobby in this country does not want to see any “daylight” between official Israeli and American positions. That is the main reason why I support J Street, because –as noted in the post that upset you so much—elected officials in this country need more political wiggleroom to tell the Israeli government what it does not want to hear sometimes. Any good friend should have the ability to do that. That does NOT mean pressuring the Israeli government to accept any settlement that it believes would jeopardize Israel’s security.

    Now, you say that what American Jews think “doesn’t matter,” but I assume you think it is important that more than a thousand people from J Street lobbied Congress for continued aid to Israel this past Wednesday, just as I assume you are glad when AIPAC does the same thing. If you think America’s strategic relationship with Israel “doesn’t matter,” then you’re right, American Jewish opinion is of no consequence. But I bet you do think that relationship is very important.

    If American Jews believe that Israel is increasingly on the wrong side of the moral ledger, then Israel has a problem. That is one of the reasons why Olmert pursued the two-state solution; he knew that if Israel resembled South Africa, it could not count on the support of liberal American Jews. All the hasbara in the world cannot convince the young American Jews I wrote about that what is happening in Sheikh Jarrah is ok, or that what the soldiers in Shovrim Shtika report is something they should ignore. You can dismiss them as walking in lockstep with the enemies of Israel, but if I were you, I would worry about them rather than haranguing them.

    What you’re saying is that if these young people and I don’t become Israeli citizens, then we have no right to say anything about what is right and what is wrong in Israel. I presume you think American Jews, as American citizens, have the right to be offended and speak out about the behavior and policies of other countries. But the one place we are supposed to keep quiet about is the homeland of the Jewish people, where those actions are done in our name, and by Jews who want us to keep the American people on their side? That doesn’t add up.

    Moreover, it is clearly in our own country’s interests to turn down the regional temperature in the Middle East, but when we see behavior that is against those interests, you’d like us to keep our mouths shut. Sorry. I don’t buy it.

    Finally, I live here, and I want the American Jewish community to survive and thrive here. The main point of my post is that the kids who went to the J Street conference need to find a home in this community. OK, maybe the dangers of a diminished connection between American Jews and the Jewish people –and Israel– is not your problem. It’s mine. But you have no right to tell me not to worry about that.

  5. Shimshon Says:
    March 5th, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    THANKS FOR THE REPLY. THIS SHOULD BE FUN.

    Shimshon, it might surprise you to learn that I don’t disagree with your summary in the last two paragraphs. As long as Hamas is in power and can threaten Israel with rockets, it’s hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel.

    IT DOESNT SURPRISE ME AND I AGREE WHATEVER LIGHT THERE MIGHT BE AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL IT’S MORE LIKELY A GRAD MISSILE THAN HOPE.

    Of course I would strongly denounce any American government that tried to ram a solution down Israel’s throat and forced you to live with those risks.
    There are no grand diplomatic schemes on this blog. But I do think that if there is to be ANY hope, any hope at all, of bridging the gaps between Israel and the PA and defusing Hamas, the U.S. will need to be in the middle of it, a truly honest broker and mediator offering creative solutions that neither party likes very much but both could live with.

    TAKE A LOOK AT THE OLMERT-ABBAS AGREEMENT OR ANY OF THE OTHER UNSUCCESSFUL AGREEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATED OVER THE PAST MANY YEARS. ISRAELIS KNOW VERY WELL AS APPARENTLY DO THE PALESTINIANS (THANKS WIKI LEAKS!) WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE MORE OR LESS TO GET A DEAL. THEY DON’T NEED YOU CHIRPING ON THE SIDELINES SHARING YOUR VERSION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. YOU AND J-STREET ARE NOT ANY SMARTER THAN THEY ARE. YOU’RE NOT ANY MORE MORAL OR ETHICAL OR STEEPED IN JEWISH VALUES THAN THEM.

    If I didn’t know –and if I hadn’t interviewed—smart Israelis who agreed with this premise, I would never advocate it publicly. But there is a whole chapter in my book in which Israelis ranging from Ephraim Sneh to Shlomo Ben Ami talk about the vital importance of this kind of active American engagement, which sometimes means disagreeing with Israel.

    ISRAELIS – ESPECIALLY ELECTED ONES – ARE ENTITLED TO ADVOCATE IT PUBLICLY. THEY LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. WE DON’T. THOSE TWO AND PLENTY OF OTHER ISRAELI MKs HAVE NEVER BEEN TERRIBLY SHY ABOUT LOBBYING OR MAKING THEIR VIEWS KNOWN

    But the conventional Israel lobby in this country does not want to see any “daylight” between official Israeli and American positions. That is the main reason why I support J Street, because –as noted in the post that upset you so much—elected officials in this country need more political wiggleroom to tell the Israeli government what it does not want to hear sometimes.

    THE LOGICAL EXTENSION OF THIS ARGUMENT IS THE ISRAELI ELECTORATE IS SO BEREFT OF MORALITY AND JUDGEMENT WE MUST STEP IN AND MAKE THE CASE FOR JUSTICE AND GOODNESS BECAUSE WE’RE AMERICANS AND WE KNOW BEST. THERE’S NOT ENOUGH SPACE HERE TO ACCOMMODATE ALL THAT’S WRONG WITH THAT STATEMENT.

    Any good friend should have the ability to do that.

    PERHAPS. THEORETICALLY. IN A VACUUM. MAYBE AT COLLEGE IF YOUR FRIEND IS DATING A VAMPIRE AND THEY DON’T KNOW. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY SAY SOMETHING. IN OUR CASE THE ASSUMPTION IS DEMOCRATIC ISRAEL DOESN’T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG. WE AMERICANS – ESPECIALLY WE JEWISH AMERICANS – SHOULD TELL THEM.

    That does NOT mean pressuring the Israeli government to accept any settlement that it believes would jeopardize Israel’s security.

    VERY KIND OF YOU TO ALLOW THE DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO ACCEPT OR REJECT ONE SETTLEMENT OR ANOTHER. (NOW IF YOU TELL ME THE HAMAS GOVERNMENT WAS ALSO DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED I’M GOING TO HANG UP ON YOU.)

    Now, you say that what American Jews think “doesn’t matter,” but I assume you think it is important that more than a thousand people from J Street lobbied Congress for continued aid to Israel this past Wednesday, just as I assume you are glad when AIPAC does the same thing.

    THAT’S A MISTAKEN ASSUMPTION. I DON’T THINK THE U.S. GIVES ISRAEL AID BECAUSE J-STREET OR AIPAC TELL THEM TO. I THINK THEY GIVE AID BECAUSE ISRAEL BLOWS UP NUCLEAR FACILITIES IN SYRIA AND IRAQ AND INFECTS THE IRANIAN ONE WITH VIRUSES – ALLEGEDLY. MY GUESS IS ISRAEL DOES ALL KINDS OF STUFF THE U.S. LIKES A LOT THAT WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT.

    If you think America’s strategic relationship with Israel “doesn’t matter,” then you’re right, American Jewish opinion is of no consequence. But I bet you do think that relationship is very important.

    THERE’S NOTHING IN WHAT I SAID THAT WOULD LEAD TO THIS CONCLUSION. I NEVER SAID THE U.S. STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL DOESN’T MATTER. IT’S BOTH HYPERBOLIC AND INACCURATE TO INDICATE I SAID OTHERWISE. I SAID YOUR SELF-SERVING SERMONIZING ABOUT ISRAEL’S WRONGDOING DOESN’T MATTER IN THAT IT DOESNT ACHIEVE THE RESULT YOU DESIRE.

    If American Jews believe that Israel is increasingly on the wrong side of the moral ledger, then Israel has a problem.

    AHA. EXCELLENT POINT. HERE’S WHERE THE HUMUS MEETS THE PITA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. TOO MANY AMERICAN JEWS ARE BARRAGED WITH HATE AND PROPAGANDA ON CAMPUSES, LESS THAN COMPLETE BORDERING ON SERIALLY MISLEADING INFORMATION IN THE MEDIA ALL OF IT BASICALLY TELLING US “ISRAEL IS BAD IF NOT CRUEL. PALESTINIANS ARE VICTIMS”. ITS RELENTLESS AND WRONG. UNTIL THE RECENT UPRISINGS THERE’S BEEN LITTLE OR NO OUTRAGE OR ANGRY PROTEST OR YEARNING TO BE HEARD ON ALL KINDS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES LIKE HONOR KILLINGS, FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, OUTRAGEOUS AND CRUEL TREATMENT OF WOMEN GENERALLY, THE UTTER AND COMPLETE ABSENCE OF JUSTICE OR FAIRNESS OR HUMANITY OR EDUCATION OR OPPORTUNITY NOT TO MENTION THE MOST VIRULENT, PERVASIVE ANTI-SEMITISM IN VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE ARAB REGIMES. NO SENSE OF BELONGING GENERATED ON THESE FRONTS; ONLY CRAPPING ON ISRAEL CAUSE POOR MISGUIDED ISRAEL CAN’T HELP ITSELF SEEMS TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE THE SENSE OF BELONGING THEY REQUIRE.

    That is one of the reasons why Olmert pursued the two-state solution; he knew that if Israel resembled South Africa, it could not count on the support of liberal American Jews. All the hasbara in the world cannot convince the young American Jews I wrote about that what is happening in Sheikh Jarrah is ok, or that what the soldiers in Shovrim Shtika report is something they should ignore. You can dismiss them as walking in lockstep with the enemies of Israel, but if I were you, I would worry about them rather than haranguing them.

    I DO WORRY ABOUT THEM GREATLY. I AM DEEPLY PROFOUNDLY AND HONESTLY CONCERNED. THAT DOESN’T MEAN I THINK THE ANSWER IS TO CODDLE THEM AND TELL THEM HOW AWFUL IT MUST BE FOR THEM. YOU SEE I ALSO WORRY THEY ARE BEING PLACATED BY YOU AND J-STREET AND OTHERS. I WORRY NO ONE SPEAKS TO THEM IN LOVING DIRECT WAY AND TELLS THEM TO GROW UP. THAT DOESN’T MEAN SWALLOWING EVERYTHING BIBI SERVES UP. THIS ARGUMENT TO THE CONTRARY I AM AN ISRAELI AND A LEFT WING ONE AT THAT. I’M SUGGESTING WE TELL THEM THEY’RE BETTER OFF READING A BOOK, USING THEIR HEAD BEFORE THEY JOIN THE DRUM CIRCLE DURING ISRAEL apartheid WEEK CHANTING RIDICULOUS HATEFUL SLOGANS. I READ HA’ARETZ EVERY DAY AND WHILE GIDEON LEVY AND AMIRA HASS ARE WAY ONE-SIDED AND OVER THE TOP I THINK THE REST OF THE PAPER DOES AN OUTSTANDING JOB. ISRAELIS WRITING ABOUT THEIR OWN COUNTRY WITH MORE AT STAKE THAN WE CAN IMAGINE. THEIR VOICES MATTER.

    What you’re saying is that if these young people and I don’t become Israeli citizens, then we have no right to say anything about what is right and what is wrong in Israel. I presume you think American Jews, as American citizens, have the right to be offended and speak out about the behavior and policies of other countries.

    I’M NOT AMERICAN AND LIVING ELSEWHERE I NOTICED AMERICANS DON’T GENERALLY WAIT FOR PERMISSION FROM ANYONE ELSE TO COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLE’S BUSINESS. AND AGAIN, YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE INCORRECT. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER YOU LIKE, SO DOES J-STREET. I’M TELLING YOU ULTIMATELY IT DOES NOT NOW NOR WILL IT PRODUCE THE RESULT YOU WANT – THATS #1. ALL YOU DO IS PROVIDE COVER FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WHO OPPOSE ISRAEL AND FOR POLITICIANS WHO ARE INCLINED THAT WAY IN ANY CASE. AND SECONDLY, YOUR OTHER MISTAKEN ASSUMPTION IS THAT DEMOCRATIC ISRAEL NEEDS YOUR HELP; THAT FOR IT’S OWN GOOD IT SHOULD LISTEN TO YOU CAUSE YOU KNOW BETTER. DO YOU? REALLY?

    But the one place we are supposed to keep quiet about is the homeland of the Jewish people, where those actions are done in our name, and by Jews who want us to keep the American people on their side? That doesn’t add up.
    Moreover, it is clearly in our own country’s interests to turn down the regional temperature in the Middle East, but when we see behavior that is against those interests, you’d like us to keep our mouths shut. Sorry. I don’t buy it.

    YOUR VIEWS HAVE ENLIGHTENED NO ONE IN ISRAEL NOR HAVE THEY SIGNIFICANTLY INFLUENCED ANYONE ON THIS SIDE OF THE WORLD. AND EVEN IF THEY COULD, WHICH OF J-STREETS VIEWS DO YOU THINK HELPED TO TURN DOWN THE REGIONAL TEMPERATURE?

    Finally, I live here, and I want the American Jewish community to survive and thrive here. The main point of my post is that the kids who went to the J Street conference need to find a home in this community. OK, maybe the dangers of a diminished connection between American Jews and the Jewish people –and Israel– is not your problem. It’s mine. But you have no right to tell me not to worry about that.

    I NEVER TOLD YOU NOT TO WORRY ABOUT IT. I TOLD YOU YOUR EFFORTS WERE INEFFECTUAL AND MISGUIDED. THEY PLACATE THOSE UNINFORMED AND OVERLY SENSITIVE AMONG US. TELL THEM IF THEY WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE THEY SHOULD GO TO STUDY IN ISRAEL FOR A YEAR; GO ARGUE WITH ISRAELIS IN HEBREW OVER THERE FOR A WHILE, GO VOLUNTEER IN AN ETHIOPIAN OR OTHER DEVELOPMENT TOWN COMMUNITY IN ISRAEL AND FIND OUT WHAT THEY THINK, HOW THEY FEEL; GO TO ISRAEL AND SPEAK TO A RUSSIAN IMMIGRANT ABOUT LIFE IN THE SOVIET UNION AD WHAT IT MEANS TO THEM TO HAVE SAFE HAVEN IN ISRAEL; GO TO PALESTINE AND SPEAK TO MAINSTREAM PALESTINIANS IN RAMALLAH OR HOW ABOUT THEY GO TO ISRALEI-PALESTINIAN PEACE CAMPS IN CANADA OR IN THE U.S. AS COUNSELLORS IF THEY CAN’T GET OVER THERE… AND THERE ARE MANY MORE CONSTRUCTIVE OPTIONS THEY COULD CONSIDER.

    I CARE ABOUT THEM TOO, SO MUCH SO I WON’T LIE TO THEM OR CODDLE THEM OR TELL THEM THEY’RE DOING GREAT THINGS FOR ISRAEL WHEN THEY’RE NOT.

    Shavua Tov. All the best.

  6. Richard Witty Says:
    March 6th, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Israel NEEDS kind US dissent like Dan offers.

    Israel NEEDS more involvement than less, even more intrusion.

    It is driving towards a brick wall. The consequences are two:

    1. It kills everyone in between
    2. It crashes itself

    BOTH are repugnant to me. You?

    If there are no options that exist or can be designed and created, fine. Crash if you like.

    If there are options that exist or can be created, then to neglect to is a great abuse. A great hating, rationalized as self-defense.

    To claim that there has been no progress in changing Palestinian and general Arab hearts and minds is a lie. There is an Arab League offer remaining on the table.

    It is an either/or question for Israel, whether it desires to be greater Israel, river to sea, or whether it desires to be enough Israel.

    Is it worth a war? Is that what we are put on the planet for? I don’t.

    I don’t read that in Torah. I don’t reason that from personal reflection. I don’t see it sustaining politically.

    Peace is preferable. Simple and obvious things contribute to peace. Settlement freeze. Removal of roadblocks.

    “WHICH OF J-STREETS VIEWS DO YOU THINK HELPED TO TURN DOWN THE REGIONAL TEMPERATURE?”

    The view that Israel needs reminders of its primary law commitments to be Jewish AND democratic (an #AND# statement).

  7. Bill Pearlman Says:
    March 6th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    You see Shimshon, Dan and Rich are really racists in their own way. They think that Jews in Israel are idiots and morons. Rubes who really who don’t understand the middle east or the Arabs. And they need liberal American Jews to show them the way. To me that is the definition of being a racist.

  8. Richard Witty Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 7:01 am

    As I know many Israelis, some that think that free Palestinians are a likely good neighbor, and some that think that free Palestinians are only a violent threat, the accusation of “racism” is idiotic.

    I so wish that modern Israelis would speak in similar terms to Golda Meir’s description of the repugnance of killing. Being killed is horrible and worth defending oneself. Advocating for suppressing and killing others because of one’s own lack of ethics, backbone or imagination is something entirely different.

    Your comments are seen Bill Pearlman and anonymous Shimshon. They describe you.

  9. Nate Witkin Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 7:46 am

    For an alternative to the physical occupation and “ruling over” the Palestinian people, take a look at the recent issue of the Middle East Journal. The article on the “Interspersed Nation-State” describes the theoretical and functional basis for a state structure that exists primarily over people rather than land. This would allow two states to tax, regulate, and protect their separate peoples within the same region (i.e., share land). Citizens of both states would have the benefits of an autonomous government and also access to 100% of the disputed territory.

    This model offers an end to the territorial conflict, with Israel and Palestine establishing autonomous governments while their people are able to freely intersperse over the shared region. Under this model, Israel would not need to occupy land or rule over the Palestinian people.

  10. Dan Fleshler Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Shimshon,

    You don’t seem to understand one of my diplomatic premises. The parties may “understand” what’s necessary but, in part because of substantive gaps and in part because of major political constraints (the veto power of minorities among both peoples), they have not been able to make the deal. That is why the vast majority of diplomats with any experience in the Middle East (Israeli, American, European) believe a pro-active U.S. role to bridge the gaps is crucial, just as it was crucial in bridging gaps at Camp David (Sadat-Begin), in the Sinai and Syria disengagement agreements, sparking the Madrid talks (which certainly brought the parties closer together and helped to end, or diminish, Israel’s isolation) and at other junctures. Are you/were you against those agreements and negotiations? The American Presidents who helped bring them about (Carter, Ford, Bush 1)) took major political heat from the organized American Jewish community. Obama will face similar political heat. It should be diminished, for the sake of everyone in the region and U.S. interests.

    The grassroots J Streeters complaining about human rights and the more centrist J Streeters are there to provide a political base for the U.S. President to be an honest broker and mediator. J Street needs to make sure its left wing does not go too far, and that was one of the points of my post. Complain about their complaints all you want, but you need to understand the realpolitik….

  11. Peter D Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    My major beef with what Shimshon is saying is this, in a nutshell. One of the many things Phil Weiss gets exactly right, IMO, is that the occupation is the American Jewry achievement. Without the constant support of the American Jewry thru many channels – political, media, financial – I just cannot see Israel being able to “afford” it. As such, it is only imperative for the American Jewry to do whatever it can to reverse the damage it was so instrumental in causing.
    Now, Shimshon will likely counter that it is the other way around – American support for Israel does not primarily stem from the workings of the American Jewry (aka Israel Lobby) but because Israel serves a useful purpose for the American hegemony in the region. He’ll find an unlikely ally in Joseph Massad and some other leftists such as Chomsky. I don’t really buy it. Time and again American presidents of all stripes and colors tried to pressure Israel and were quickly brought to the heel. There might be parts of Americal military industrial complex interested in supporting Israel that are truly separate from the Israel Lobby (in that their support is more about extracting profits rather than ideological in nature) but I doubt this component is dominant enough.
    I will mention in passing other reasons why American Jewry is totally justified in “intervening” in Israeli democratic process:
    1) Israel is a de facto bi-national state with half of population deprived of democratic rights and as such not a true democracy
    2) Being an ally very strongly associated with Israel, America is on the receiving end of the fallouts from many of Israeli policies
    3) American taxpayers support Israel and thus have at least some say in Israeli policies

  12. Bruce Levine Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Dan,

    Here’s where I have serious disagreements with you. You write:

    “The grassroots J Streeters complaining about human rights and the more centrist J Streeters are there to provide a political base for the U.S. President to be an honest broker and mediator. J Street needs to make sure its left wing does not go too far, and that was one of the points of my post. Complain about their complaints all you want, but you need to understand the realpolitik.”

    I don’t see what is coming out of J Street as realpolitik. To the contrary, what I see is criticism of Israel without context, which I would submit is the antithesis of realpolitik.

  13. Dan Fleshler Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Bruce, I don’t think we disagree, or at least we agree more than you seem to think. I don’t feel quite as strongly as you do about some of what came out of that conference, but agree that it reflected a major challenge to the J Street leaders who are concerned about realpolitik.

  14. Bill Pearlman Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Noam Chomsky, Phil ( Hitler should have finished the job ) Weiss. Joseph Massad. Whats the matter your couldn’t dig up Heinreich Himmler and Julius Streicher.

  15. Dan Fleshler Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Shimson, you wrote: “I’M SUGGESTING WE TELL THEM THEY’RE BETTER OFF READING A BOOK, USING THEIR HEAD BEFORE THEY JOIN THE DRUM CIRCLE DURING ISRAEL apartheid WEEK CHANTING RIDICULOUS HATEFUL SLOGANS”

    Well, that’s precisely the point! They DON’T participate in Israel Apartheid Week and they don’t want to, at least the kind of kids who get involved in J Street U. I don’t think you understand what is happening on American college campuses.There is indeed a drumbeat of vicious anti-Israel rhetoric, as you mentioned. For young Jews trying to figure out what to think and whom to believe, it’s often either the Israel-right-or-wrong-crowd or the Israel-is-always-wrong crowd. There needs to be something in between. But your position doesn’t give them any room at all. Of course they need to be educated and informed and yes, balanced with different perspectives. But do expect that education to exclude the documented realities in the territories that I am sure upset you too? And if they learn about that, do you still want young, idealistic Jews to shut up (while they are also trying fight the truly dangerous far left)? Give me a break.

  16. Bruce Levine Says:
    March 7th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Dan,

    I’ve two children who’ve recently graduated from Northwestern University and one who is a junior there now. I know what’s happening on college campuses, and Northwestern is no exception.
    I hope you’re correct that the J Street kids are not the ones participating in Israel Apartheid Week. I’m not so sure.

    In any event, Israel Apartheid Week is serious stuff, and a microcosm of what’s going on around the world. I believe that a progressive organization like J Street should have been attacking Israel Apartheid Week head-on, with a message that I think would resonate with college students. J Street should have come out with a well-organized campaign strenuously objecting to Israel Apartheid Week as something that is wrong, that is evil, and something that should be condemned in no uncertain terms. Had J Street planned a response, it could have galvanized kids around the country with a message of hope and not hate, and an educational program throughout this week to counter the haters of the Jewish State. Indeed, this apartheid week presented J Street with the perfect opportunity to demonstrate that one doesn’t have to be a “right-or-wronger” to see the evil in what’s going in universities all over the country this week. In short, this was a missed opportunity for J Street to demonstrate what it means to be pro-Israel and pro-peace.

    I understand that J Street put up a squishy statement from Jeremy on its website today rejecting Israel Apartheid Week. Where was J Street one, two, three or six months ago, when it could have prepared a real response, a genuine one, of the kind I mentioned above? My sense is that the squishy statement is recognition by J Street that it screwed up again on this front, and I’m afraid that this year it’s too little and too late, and this one, one dealing with the kids who are our future, really hits home and disappoints me.

    I appreciate your patience Dan. Your site is second to none.

    Bruce

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