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By Dan Fleshler | March 15, 2007

BUY NOLVADEX NO PRESCRIPTION,  From time to time, I'm going to alert my mostly middle-aged friends out there to the universe of progressive Jewish blogs that are worth looking at.  The deal here is that I am supposed to reference their posts very often and they are supposed to reference mine, and that is how we all get a wider audience. But I haven't thought of anything useful to write about that would refer to them yet.  Anyway, where can i buy cheapest NOLVADEX online, Buy generic NOLVADEX, here are just a few, which are also on my blogroll, after NOLVADEX. NOLVADEX images, By the way, some Zionist lefties believe Jewish Voices for Peace is somehow beyond the pale and not worth calling attention to, NOLVADEX without a prescription. NOLVADEX schedule, I heartily disagree. We may be uncomfortable with some of their positions and some of what they do, online NOLVADEX without a prescription, NOLVADEX treatment, but they are worth listening to. So I've included Muzzlewatch, NOLVADEX no rx, NOLVADEX dosage, their excellent blog run by Cecilie Surasky  :

Jew School http://jewschool.com

Orthodox Anarchist http://orthodoxanarchist.com/

Muzzlewatch  www.muzzlewatch.org/

Tikkun Olam at  http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/

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Topics: Israel | 11 Comments »

11 Responses to “BUY NOLVADEX NO PRESCRIPTION”

  1. Mike Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    Daniel:

    I respectfully disagree, quite strongly, with your endorsement of both Jewish Voice for Peace and their “Muzzlewatch” blog. As I am sure you are aware, JVP specifically does NOT support Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. In that respect, they are closer to the rejectionists of al-Awda than they are to you and me. It should come as no surprise, then, that they co-sponsor events with ISM and MECA, and they regularly stand at anti-Israel demonstrations (at least out here in the SF Bay Area)next to keffiyeh-clad demonstrators chanting in Arabic “Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs”, for Nasrallah to bomb Tel Aviv, and simlar outrages–without even making a pretense of disavowing them.

    The very pretext of Muzzlewatch (and allies such as Richard Silverstein at Tikun Olam) is that the Jewish “establishment” (AIPAC, ADL, SWC, etc.) labels any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism and prevents it from being heard. While there are those on the extreme fringes that will indeed do so, that does not validate their argument which we both know is false. (Jimmy Carter couldn’t get a lick of publicity for his book because the pro-Israel community was effectively able to quash it, right? Norman Finkelstein is prevented from speaking at major universities like Stanford, right?)

    IMHO, the gap between you and JVP is actually much wider than the gap between you and, say, Bibi Netanyahu. Why? Because you and I and Bibi agree that Israel has a fundamental right to exist as a Jewish state. Because we agree that this is something worth defending. Because we are Zionists.

    JVP is much closer to the Arab rejectionist position in that they would be perfectly satisfied with the replacement of Israel by a 23rd Arab state in which Jews would eventually become a minority and suffer the fate of non-Moslem minorities in all other Arab states (except Lebanon which is a unique situation)–disenfranchisement, impoverishment, and eventual dhimmitude.

    Even if you take the position that you disagree with their fundamental guiding principles but they are “still worth listening to”, Cecelie’s posts are disingenuous, misleading, and easily refuted (check out both my comments on Muzzlewatch and our responses on BlueTruth.net). Is it useful to read what she posts to see what the other side is saying? OK, I can accept that–but only because it provides me a chance to tailor my own arguments in response.

    Criticism of Israel from those who love it and genuinely want a stable future for the Jewish state? Absolutely–not only welcome but necessary– both in Israel and abroad. Criticism from JVP and the like which seeks to undermine the very existence of Israel yet claim it is for “peace”? Intellectually dishonest at best, possibly even worse than the jihadists with their Hamas banners on the street– at least the jihadists are clear about what they stand for.

  2. Dan Fleshler Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    Mike,

    I respectfully disagree, albeit much less strongly, that Muzzlewatch is so slanted that it is not worth reading. I share your discomfort with many of JVP’s positions. And I haven’t had much direct contact with them, so I am willing to be educated about why their behavior is so objectionable. My impression, though, is that they are “agnostic” on a two-state or bi-national solution, and that their members/activists include people on both sides of the issue.

    But regardless of what JVP stands for, Muzzlewatch has had posts that are very instructive. I haven’t found any evidence that Cecelie (or Richard Silverstein) have asserted that the “`Jewish establishment’ “labels all criticism of Israel anti-Semitic.” My impression is that they have been a bit more careful than that, but Iif you could prove that I am mistaken, perhaps I’ll re-evaluate what I’m saying here.

    What is certainly true, though, is that some “muzzling” has been taking place for as long as I’ve been in the trenches of Jewish activism. It’s not nearly as extensive or as pernicious as the non-Zionist left often charges. I concur that it is a gross exaggeration to say, as some lefties do, that Jummy Carter and Tony Judt have been “suppressed,,” or that Walt and Mearsheimer were brave fighters butting against a wall of silence. But the fact is that, according to the Forward, some Brandeis donors have made some threats about their donations because the school hosted Carter.

    The Rachel Corrie play, at least what I’ve heard about it, was very one-sided. But the fact is that some people in New York City protested strongly when a theater announced they wanted to stage it, and it was cancelled for awhile.

    And don’t get me started about Mort Klein and the ZOA, who, in the mid-1990s, once protested when ADL wanted Tom Friedman to speak at one of their dinners..

    There are many examples of this kind. To me, that kind of behavior is objectionable. It is, in fact, potentially dangerous, because it feeds real anti-Semitism, not the imaginary kind. If Muzzlewatch provides more examples, I want to find out about it…I don’t care if the people who are the source of information sometimes take positions I strongly disagree with, as long as the information they are providing is credible, or is at least credible enough to prod me to look into it.

    But, as I noted, I am interested in learning which of the posts you find disingenuous, misleading and easily refuted. I looked at your site briefly and couldn’t find anyway.

  3. MuzzleWatch » Beyond the pale is the new self-hating Jew Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    [...] Here he gives Jewish blogs including Muzzlewatch a nod, and tells friends who think Jewish Voice for Peace is “beyond the pale” to take a second look. Like Dan, we too see the power of the phrase “beyond the pale” to literally make people unable to see what is before their eyes. [...]

  4. yehudi Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

    yeah, daniel, i’m a little confused. you support the legitimacy of israel as a jewish state, but muzzlewatch and JVP certainly do not. they are not agnostic about a 2 state solution. they are opposed to it, opposed to the existence of israel as a jewish state. i’m not calling for them to be ignored or banned; it’s good to know the tactics of those who wish to destroy you, but calling that site excellent is a little schizoid.

  5. Richard Silverstein Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    JVP specifically does NOT support Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. In that respect, they are closer to the rejectionists of al-Awda than they are to you and me

    You’ve done some violence both to the truth & to JVP’s position on Zionism. A refusal to take a pro-Zionist position is not the same as taking an anti-Zionist position. JVP refuses either position. It simply doesn’t take a position on the issue. I know that’s hard for you to wrap yr mind around because much of pro-Israel community looks at this issue as a litmus test of credibility. You’re either pro-Zionist or you’re out of the game as far as the Jewish communal organizations are concerned. What JVP says is no, there are many views on this issue & there is no litmus test for acceptability.

    you and I and Bibi agree that Israel has a fundamental right to exist as a Jewish state.

    But Mike, you’ve got a problem. I agree that Israel has a fundamental right to exist as a Jewish state too. Oh, but I guess I can’t be part of your club. Too bad, it could’ve been so much fun! I’ll really miss you.

    JVP is much closer to the Arab rejectionist position in that they would be perfectly satisfied with the replacement of Israel by a 23rd Arab state in which Jews would eventually become a minority and suffer the fate of non-Moslem minorities in all other Arab states (except Lebanon which is a unique situation)–disenfranchisement, impoverishment, and eventual dhimmitude.

    First, again JVP isn’t an anti-Zionist group so they wouldn’t believe anything of the kind. But even if they did, I find it amazing that you can gaze into yr crystal ball & see the ME future so clearly. You’re either a clairvoyant, a prophet or a fraud. Hmmm, I wonder which?

  6. Richard Silverstein Says:
    March 16th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    you support the legitimacy of israel as a jewish state, but muzzlewatch and JVP certainly do not. they are not agnostic about a 2 state solution

    This is either spoken fr. ignorance or it is a willful lie as JVP IS agnostic. Beware hardline pro-Israel folk who make declarative statements which are not backed up by a source. Anyone can say anything. But if you want us to believe you, prove it.

  7. yehudi Says:
    March 17th, 2007 at 12:18 am

    looking at their site, and talking to their members, it is clear that JVP has nothing bad to say about palestinian actions, and is consistently critical of israel’s actions. they do not condemn palestinian acts of terror (Personal Conversation, the JVP booth at the KPFA crafts fair, 2007), they call for a boycott of israeli goods but not palestinian, they support the palestinians suicide bombing of innocents but condemn israel’s defending itself. do your own research, people, learn the truth for yourself. even in their document about their being “agnostic” about a 1 or 2 state solution, the reason they are agnostic is because israel is preventing either from happening. which is clearly, blatantly, one-sided and inaccurate.

  8. Mike Says:
    March 20th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Obviously I’m honored to be the victim of one of Richard Silverstein’s notorious ad hominem attacks; I guess when you don’t have substantive ways to rebut someone else you can always resort to insults.

    As far as the actual substance of the argument, though, Richard actually stumbled onto it! One of his charges are indeed both correct AND justifiable, which is that as far as the Jewish community organizations are concerned, you are either pro-Zionist or you’re out of the game. I agree, and I support this position. If Israel’s very existence was not under attack from radical Islamists with rockets filled with ball bearings aimed at civilian populations (and isn’t THAT a cluster bomb?), not to mention their patron sitting in Tehran frantically working to develop nukes for Allah; if Israel wasn’t the sole target of the so-called Human Rights Council at the UN that somehow manages to avoid issues like Darfur and Tibet; if we didn’t have maksed jihadists in our streets chanting “Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs”– well, then it really wouldn’t make a difference whether Richard Silverstein or Cecelie Surasky did or didn’t support the Zionist enterprise. But under the current circumstances, it is intellectually dishonest to claim that “oh, we’re not really anti-Zionist, we’re just agnostic on the issue”. To support Israel’s existence as a Jewish state doesn’t mean one has to support everything the government does; but it should involve (at an unbelievably bare minimum) distancing oneself from those who wish Israel’s destruction– and JVP can’t even bring itself to do that.
    So back to the issue of our JCO’s. They reflect those who donate money to create and support them, and who give of their time to run them. And, like the overwhleming majority of the American Jewish community, those individuals support Israel. So why should fringe extremist voices believe that they have the right– without having done anything to support these organizations– to decide what policy they should follow? Similarly, why can’t donors to the Democratic Party, for example, decide when and how much to give based on whatever criteria they set? I don’t give money to the DCCC because that gets used indiscriminately to support even the likes of Cynthia McKinney– I give to specific candidates.
    Yet what appears to bother JVP and the like seems to be that, while their point of view gets prominent play in the media and on the Internet, they can’t force the JCO’s to let them spread their viewpoint there as well. (Well, we don’t let Jews for Jesus in either, but I don’t hear THEM complaining about it… ).
    Sorry, Richard et al; what this shows is that despite all the ruckus that JVP raises, it can’t get any traction with our community leaders. And that frustration is driving them up the wall.

  9. B.BarNavi Says:
    March 21st, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    “if Israel wasn’t the sole target of the so-called Human Rights Council at the UN that somehow manages to avoid issues like Darfur and Tibet;”

    Okay, my own personal issues w/ the UN and the HRC aside, you KNOW that is a lie. Yes, it took a bit of pushing from Kofi, but now Darfur is a front and center issue.

    And frankly, your ass-backwards logic is just twisting me up here. When does JVP or Silverstein ever have a duty to distance themselves from whom they are not associated? I don’t recall JVP receiving material or spiritual support from terrorists. Unless, of course, someone were trying to force an association upon them. (Now regarding the parties which they ARE associated, such as the likes of ANSWER, I could see some more criticism.)

    In the end, JVP is just fulfilling the role of the internal critic. The role of the Jewish critic of Palestinian actions is well-filled; JVP doesn’t need to be another one of them. Now in the end, the Palestinians have to learn how to criticize themselves (and not just IRT Fatah/Hamas corruption) – a view that no outsider, JVP or SWU or otherwise, can impose.

    And as for me, I could care less about what the Boys’ Clubs known as Jewish Federations think. And frankly, JVP shouldn’t either.

  10. Mike Says:
    March 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    “And as for me, I could care less about what the Boys’ Clubs known as Jewish Federations think. And frankly, JVP shouldn’t either.” Ah, but that’s JVP’s whole raison d’etre for Muzzlewatch! There can’t be any (rational) complaint about lack of access to the media for Jewish enemies of Israel, or of “alternative viewpoints” (gee, Cater and Mearshimer/Walt got no publicity whatsoever), etc. The anti-Zionists have plenty of access to our university students (read Tammi Benjamin’s account of last week’s supposedly “academic” anti-Zionist conference at UCSC last week–go to http://www.bluetruth.net/2007/03/pro-israel-voices-muzzled-at-ucsc.html. What it comes down to is that they can’t win the argument within the American Jewish community– so they whine about being “muzzled”.

  11. stop kapostein Says:
    June 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 am

    The Little Dickie Silverstein Marching Song

    I am a little kapo,
    It makes my mommy mad,
    Cause when I am a kapo,
    Those Zionists get sad!

    I celebrate the jihad,
    and terror all the while,
    I fill my blog and web page,
    With loud salutes of Sieg Heil!

    I want to see them Zraelis,
    All dumped out in the sea,
    My swastika a waving,
    Cause everything’s bout me.

    (from the Kapostein blog)

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